0:02 from each of the three member health
0:04 boards and be devon card and mango and
0:08 also confirm that we have representation
0:10 from the two associate members teaching
0:13 health board and blindra university NHS
0:15 trust
0:17 Samir Edmunds planning director of Welsh
0:19 government is here to observe and I
0:21 understand Samir you might need to leave
0:23 just before the end of the meeting so
0:25 note that and Christo Morris director of
0:28 Southeast Wales regional collabor Ive is
0:31 is here to support the work of the
0:32 committee and to potent items later on
0:34 in the agenda. Please note this meeting
0:37 is being recorded and a copy of the
0:39 recording will be available following
0:40 the meeting on the three health website
0:43 if anyone wishes to wait. I can confirm
0:46 that we've not listened to any questions
0:48 from the public in advance of today's
0:50 meeting.
0:51 I now turn into apologies for absence
0:54 and record apologies from Phil Robson
0:56 the vice chair Mland University Health
0:58 Board and Neil Measure the independent
1:01 member at Kart University. I've not
1:05 received any notice of declarations of
1:08 interest prior to the meeting. Has
1:09 anyone got anything they wanted today?
1:14 So we move on to item 3.2.1 2.1 which is
1:18 the appointment of the chair as per
1:20 paragraph 17 of the terms of reference
1:22 which are approved by the three health
1:24 boards. The chair of the RJC will be
1:26 drawn from the chairs of the three
1:27 health boards and the first appointed
1:30 chair will serve until the 31st of March
1:31 2027.
1:33 The other two health board chairs will
1:34 then serve as joint vice chairs of this
1:37 committee. At this point I'd like to
1:39 turn to the three health board chairs
1:41 and ask for a nomination please.
1:44 We have discussed some and uh Kirsty and
1:46 I would like to nominate John please.
1:50 Thank you uh an and Kirsty.
1:53 Absolutely. As an said we'd be very
1:55 pleased to ask Jonathan to serve in this
1:57 role.
1:58 Thank you Christie. So Jonathan can I
2:01 confirm you accept the nomination chair?
2:03 Yes. Delighted to
2:05 thank you Jonathan. So we will record
2:07 Jonathan Morgan has been nominated and
2:09 accepted the role of the chair of the
2:10 regional joint committee and I will now
2:12 hand over the chairing of the rain
2:14 meeting to Jonathan. Uh thank you and
2:17 thanks for starting the uh meeting uh
2:20 this afternoon. Firstly, can I just
2:21 thank my fellow chairs for nominating me
2:23 to be the the first chair of the
2:25 Southeast Wales Regional Joint Committee
2:27 and I look forward to doing so for the
2:30 next 14 or 15 months. So thank you very
2:33 much for for that opportunity. Can I
2:35 also say um a very big thank you to all
2:38 of you for the workshop that we held
2:40 prior to this meeting taking place. I
2:42 think it was a good start uh for us to
2:44 to come together to reflect on the the
2:47 opportunity that the regional joint
2:49 committee presents to us as a a range of
2:52 statutory bodies covering the southeast
2:54 Wales uh region. Uh and I would like to
2:57 at the outset uh pay tribute to all of
3:01 our colleagues across our statutory
3:03 bodies who have already worked very hard
3:05 thus far together in attempting to
3:08 deliver a range of solutions to a number
3:11 of the challenges that we face across
3:14 our healthcare system. Whilst this is a
3:15 new start uh for us as a collective
3:19 through this uh committee uh we of
3:22 course are not um
3:25 regional joint working is not something
3:27 that's unusual to us because that is
3:28 something that has been done extremely
3:30 well actually by our colleagues across
3:32 our system for a number of years. I just
3:34 think it's worth recognizing that I
3:36 think we're starting from a very a very
3:38 strong point uh in terms of those
3:40 relationships, those ambitions
3:42 um and some of that delivery. First, I
3:45 think as a regional joint committee,
3:47 this isn't just about providing a
3:50 framework or a level of governance over
3:52 what we currently do. It's about setting
3:54 out overtime uh with clarity the
3:57 ambition and opportunity to really do
4:00 things differently uh in some key areas
4:02 where that is possible for the
4:04 population the 1.5 million population
4:07 that we serve across Southeast Wales.
4:09 And I think doing that with ambition,
4:11 with hope, with excitement, uh seizing
4:13 that opportunity I think is really is
4:16 really important and for us to be able
4:17 to articulate that not just within our
4:21 own organizations but externally uh
4:23 amongst those organizations with whom we
4:26 work uh our colleagues in local
4:28 government, our colleagues in the third
4:29 sector uh and of course working with
4:32 government to ensure that we are able to
4:34 deliver on the agenda that we as a
4:36 regional joint committee set. So, thank
4:39 you very much for agreeing that I should
4:41 chair for the next 14 to 15 months and
4:45 uh I look forward to what we're able to
4:47 do collectively as a regional joint
4:50 committee. Thank you very much. Um we
4:53 are going to move on to some matters of
4:55 business this afternoon that we do need
4:57 to uh to discuss and hopefully to uh to
5:00 agree. So, I I will move on to the
5:03 update to the terms of uh reference. uh
5:07 there is an update that has been uh
5:09 proposed suggested in fact by the cabin
5:11 secretary uh and I'm going to ask Gareth
5:13 just to present the paper just to talk
5:16 us through where those terms of
5:17 reference are needing to be addressed.
5:20 Thank you G.
5:20 Thanks.
5:21 Thanks John. So as I mentioned in my
5:23 opening remarks the terms of reference
5:25 were signed off by three health boards
5:27 uh in September. Subsequently um shared
5:30 with W government colleagues I know that
5:33 car sector begins to be interesting
5:35 obviously the work of the regional
5:37 committee. So he has made um um some
5:41 suggested changes which not material but
5:44 um important in terms of being explicit
5:46 around lines of accountability I think
5:48 were main driver in in these proposed
5:51 updates. I I won't um repeat what's in
5:54 the paper. I think it's pretty self, but
5:57 what I'm looking for today is
5:58 endorsement from uh the RJC for onward
6:01 approval of these changes.
6:05 Thank you, J. I I did mention this
6:07 briefly to Chris last week. Just 21B
6:10 um the name of Vindra um University NHS
6:15 Trust has just inserted the word
6:17 university.
6:18 So you can incorporate that.
6:23 Hi. Um so, uh our director of corporate
6:26 corporate governance has obviously been
6:28 involved in these but can we just um
6:31 note on the meeting today that in page
6:34 2.14b
6:36 where the phrase population by three
6:39 health boards is used and also used
6:42 throughout the documentation that we can
6:44 note that formally includes the
6:46 population health.
6:53 Y thank you much
6:57 colle's happy to endorse the uh
7:00 suggested changes which are listed in
7:02 the paper
7:04 thank you very much appreciate it uh
7:06 item 32.3 the current work program uh as
7:10 I said earlier there's been a
7:11 considerable amount of work that's been
7:13 done over a period of years um in
7:15 respect of you know that joint uh effort
7:18 in southeast Wales and in terms of the
7:20 current regional program I'm just going
7:22 to ask Chris to introduce this item and
7:25 open it to questions colleagues have.
7:27 Thank you chair. I'm just going to give
7:28 a very brief update of some of the
7:30 existing programs and areas where I'm
7:31 collectively working in the region. Um
7:34 as many members will know we've got
7:35 existing programs around orthopedics,
7:37 diagnostics, opthalmology, um stroke
7:39 services and cancer services. So I'll
7:41 briefly run through some of these. I'll
7:43 also invite some colleagues around the
7:44 table to contribute as well. So in terms
7:46 of our orthopedics program, many of you
7:49 have seen as part of your work on boards
7:51 that um we took a plan to September
7:53 boards um setting up the micro capacity
7:55 physicians for the region um for um
7:59 orthopedics and identifying the
8:00 opportunities um collectively through
8:02 that for improvements in particular
8:04 identifying the challenges that we've
8:05 got around um lower limb um arthroplasty
8:09 and contributing therefore to
8:10 development um house park work as well
8:13 as lots of excellent work happening in
8:14 that space around consistency and
8:16 standardization of um processes.
8:19 Similarly, within the diagnostics
8:20 program, there's been a significant
8:22 piece of work and concluded in recent
8:23 weeks around the demand capacity for um
8:26 radiology services um which identified
8:29 um some good information around our MRI
8:31 and CT capacity. There's you know a
8:34 particular challenge around our
8:35 synography um services as well. And
8:38 within that diagnostics as well we have
8:40 the endoscopy work where again good fet
8:43 demand capacity work has been undertak
8:45 across the region and we've been able to
8:47 identify a path towards bringing us into
8:49 sustainability through the plant and
8:51 health part program. I think it's
8:53 probably worth on the back of those two
8:55 very brief updates just pausing on
8:58 health part noting that we've got some
9:00 formal um cases coming to um board next
9:02 week. I don't know if Gin is the program
9:05 lead for South Park just wants to update
9:07 on where we are in the case development.
9:09 Yeah. No, thank you. Thank you Chris. Um
9:12 so um phase the first the first uh paper
9:15 that came through um all boards was the
9:19 uh the outline business case for phase
9:21 one which was the community diagnostic
9:23 hub um which is the development of a
9:26 facility to include up to two additional
9:29 CT scanners, two additional MRI
9:31 scanners, um ultrasound rooms and and a
9:34 and a six room endoscopy facility. Um
9:38 and associated with that would be the
9:39 national training academy for endoscopy
9:41 for for Wales. Um so that that case was
9:45 um uh was approved at the CTM board
9:48 endorsed by both the Cardiff and Veil
9:50 and Iron Bean boards um and and
9:53 proceeded to IIB uh the investment board
9:57 with Welsh government um where it has
10:00 been supported. We have got um the full
10:03 business case for phase one um coming
10:06 through for boards now in in November um
10:09 which will be for um for for for for the
10:13 the broader um the modern capacity
10:15 revenue consequence and um um and and
10:19 the capital investment in into that. So
10:22 that that that will be coming through
10:24 through boards um uh in November in
10:27 addition to to the full business case
10:29 for phase one is the outline business
10:31 case for phase two. So phase two is the
10:34 orthopedic um surgical hub. So as Chris
10:38 touched on, we know we have a demand and
10:40 capacity gap for lower limb arroplasty.
10:43 So that's your hips and knee
10:45 replacements um across Southeast Wales
10:47 through through the regional work that
10:49 that that has been undertaken with Welsh
10:51 government colleagues um and that has
10:54 allowed us to um to pull together this
10:57 proposal for phase two. This will be to
11:00 open up uh investment in six additional
11:04 um operating theaters for the South
11:06 Wales Southeast Wales region associated
11:09 water capacity um and has been designed
11:13 based on all the latest uh units across
11:17 the UK. So there's been um
11:19 multi-disiplinary teams um that have
11:21 have gone there to see um how how how
11:25 pathways have been most developed. So
11:27 very much predicated on very short stay
11:29 um uh working and and and pulling
11:32 through. So that those cases will be
11:35 coming through your boards this month.
11:37 Um and uh and in terms of progressing
11:41 the full business case then for the
11:44 orthopedic um uh orthopedic unit will be
11:47 in um in in in quarter four.
11:54 The um other element then that falls
11:56 part of the diagnostics program is the
11:58 pathology um program meeting of the
12:01 pathology um program report this
12:03 morning. Um there's been some really
12:05 positive work that's taken place across
12:06 the region in that space. Um most
12:09 recently in particular looking at um how
12:11 we consistently count system and apply
12:13 the RC path point in a coherent
12:16 consistent way. So we are talk all
12:17 talking the same language in topology.
12:20 Um and that has had supported a piece of
12:22 demand and capacity work where the data
12:24 has now been provided and we're working
12:25 with colleagues from NHS performance and
12:27 improvements to review the data that's
12:29 been submitted from organ organizations
12:30 in understanding ourology demand
12:32 capacity. Um there's also work going on
12:35 and looking at a combined asset
12:36 register. So understanding what is the
12:38 capacity that we have in terms of
12:40 assetology assets across the region.
12:42 Then a key piece of that work as well is
12:45 working through what our options are
12:47 around for um future pathology um
12:49 development and considering some options
12:51 appraisal to that site recognizing
12:54 actually across our estate and
12:55 particularly for comes out in Cardiff
12:58 and Bale house boards there is a need
13:00 for um infrastructure in the future in
13:02 those spaces but Paul you want to say
13:04 anything more about
13:05 yeah no I mean I think as you say Chris
13:06 it's been helpful and I think learning
13:08 from some of the improvement work that's
13:10 gone in AB around pathology ology the
13:13 the teams have been working to try and
13:16 learn from that experience and try and
13:17 optimize the existing capacity but the
13:20 reality is we know that there is a real
13:22 pressure in pathology across the board
13:24 and and as you say the infrastructure in
13:26 some of our sites is pretty poor and
13:28 can't deal with what we need to have in
13:30 the future. So there is this bit of work
13:31 going on at the moment linked to also
13:34 some opportunities that are being um
13:36 actively promoted through world
13:38 government around opportunities for
13:40 additional resources that might be
13:42 available to support um life sciences
13:45 pathology and and that wider uh
13:47 integration of services across um like
13:52 genomics and others. So I think there's
13:53 a a real opportunity which we're going
13:55 to bring an update to at the next
13:56 oversight committee about some progress
13:59 and next steps around that piece of work
14:00 on the estate. Um but but I like all
14:03 these things part of it is just getting
14:05 everyone to the same baseline and
14:07 starting to count and collect data and
14:09 information in a consistent way across
14:10 the bringing the clinical team together
14:12 to share and learn together I think
14:14 would be hugely val.
14:17 Then the other um work programs we've
14:19 got are onology work programs. Apologies
14:21 that I've lost on this one over it for
14:23 the last few years. But um so um with
14:25 that one at a strategic level, the areas
14:27 of focus we're trying to build into are
14:30 in particular our workforce planning
14:31 across the region. Um apologies
14:34 particularly the special provided scarce
14:36 resource. So how do we grow our own and
14:38 develop that that capacity that we need
14:40 across the region? And in particular,
14:42 we're looking at how do we move some of
14:43 the service development we've achieved
14:45 in the last few years into business as
14:46 usual. What's that model look like from
14:49 a program based into a business as usual
14:51 and regional caparact service? The
14:53 particular focus in the opthalmology
14:55 program has been the cataract work. And
14:58 I think it's worth noting and telling a
15:00 bit of story here about actually things
15:02 that we can achieve as a regional
15:04 partnership. When we started and put
15:06 together a business case um three years
15:08 ago um as a region, our core capacity
15:11 for catact delivery was five about 5,800
15:14 cases. That that's what we were
15:16 delivering as catact services between
15:18 the the three organization. Um last year
15:21 as a region we delivered 13,000
15:25 1,300 um sorry 13,000 cases. I'm zero.
15:30 We haven't we haven't caught our so we
15:32 delivered 13,000 cases. So we more than
15:34 doubled our capacity through our
15:36 regional um working from there. Um and
15:39 if we think about this year's plan, this
15:42 year plan is to deliver between 24 and
15:44 25,000 cases. So again, where we started
15:47 three years ago as a baseline 5,800
15:50 cases to where we are now, that is a
15:52 significant growth in our capacity. And
15:55 I think it's worth reflecting as well
15:56 that that's not all about outsourcing
15:59 and using external providers. our core
16:02 NHS capacity is now um over over 10,000
16:07 um cases essentially. So we've built up
16:10 significantly that capacity. We managed
16:12 to establish some high flow hubs in in
16:15 Neville Hall and in um in Vandoc um to
16:19 deliver those services. We've
16:20 established a shared list process. We've
16:21 established this joint booking process.
16:23 We've established a methodology of
16:25 accountability around service. And also
16:27 importantly as well through the
16:29 commissions working together we've
16:30 driven an improved standard in numbers
16:32 and the quality of the service we're
16:33 doing consistent number of the list and
16:35 we're operating
16:37 that is not not say that the program is
16:39 without risk we are having challenges at
16:41 the moment in one of our our outsourcing
16:44 providers and managing that delivery
16:46 process through the risk that we manage
16:48 operationally collectively. So I think
16:50 there's a positive story to tell in the
16:52 opology work about how we we have
16:54 significantly increased the capacity
16:56 across the region and within that
16:58 sustainably brought down waiting times
16:59 as well. Um the last couple of areas to
17:03 briefly touch on that we're working
17:04 together on are in terms of um stroke
17:06 services. It's predominantly work
17:08 between um card and catalog health
17:11 boards in looking at um how do we
17:13 develop a sustainable medical approach
17:16 to um stroke between the organizations
17:19 and that baseline work assessment work
17:21 and looking at what is being done at the
17:23 moment. And then finally the area where
17:25 we're working together an area that
17:28 Lauren has been on around the council
17:29 work. So again, lots of work happening
17:31 in in our economical space around the
17:33 the regional aspect. Your chair.
17:36 Yeah. Um give away the leadership there.
17:38 But um about the the regional um MDT
17:41 approach, the kind of regional um
17:43 patient list approach looking in
17:45 particular prehabilitation services how
17:47 we improve those and a particular
17:49 challenge service around our
17:50 hematonology services how we try to
17:52 improve. So I think it's recognized that
17:55 there is a a huge amount of work going
17:57 on in our existing work program.
18:01 Thank you. So thanks again for the
18:03 update as well. Any questions on the
18:06 existing work programs and
18:09 is a part of that?
18:12 Yes. So thanks Chris really good update.
18:14 I think it's also that we are trying to
18:16 get that be the regional digital program
18:19 of work and running as well isn't it? I
18:21 know our there is a digital across all
18:23 of the organizations are working
18:24 together to try to get their appointment
18:26 work aligned to which I think is a
18:29 really positive step as well. Lots to do
18:30 but I think they've made some good
18:32 progress together.
18:33 There's a workshop I think planned isn't
18:35 there?
18:35 Yeah.
18:39 Suzan so I I guess we will probably in
18:42 the future have um our risks
18:46 discussion. So we don't need to do it
18:48 now but we will need to do it.
18:53 Come back for the the next meeting and
18:56 yeah great summary of the work underway
18:57 and just to acknowledge across all the
18:59 teams notwithstanding some of the
19:01 challenges we picked up earlier in the
19:02 workshop. Um I think it's really
19:05 positive we've collectively worked
19:06 worked through a number of those. Um I
19:08 guess the bit I would just um touch on
19:10 and Suzanne mentioned risk is how where
19:13 with with all of these programs
19:15 particularly work on LHP what work we
19:17 need to do on engagement um with the
19:20 community so I know there's work in
19:21 train and our Smith's life so you know
19:24 there is work happening but I just think
19:26 it's something that us as a board need
19:28 to keep close to um as well I mean those
19:31 papers will be going public this week so
19:33 I imagine already in terms of a bit of a
19:35 coms um there'll be interest there
19:38 because um the interested parties will
19:40 be picking up on the conversations at
19:42 our respect to boards. So there's
19:44 something about that comms and
19:45 engagement piece for me as well. I think
19:48 on that on that point of how we message
19:51 and communicate what the value is of
19:53 this as a regional joint committee
19:56 bearing in mind the statistics that that
19:57 Chris ran through a moment ago there is
20:00 an obvious benefit to
20:03 for the population of Southeast Wales
20:05 because of the work that's already been
20:06 undertaken by our colleagues across our
20:09 healthare system. And so for those
20:10 people out there who will look at this
20:12 regional joint committee and wonder what
20:13 on earth this is about uh and perhaps
20:16 draw a conclusion that this is just
20:18 about us getting into a room for a cozy
20:20 conversation when it really isn't. Uh I
20:22 think we can demonstrate quite well thus
20:24 far that we've been bring benefit to
20:27 that that that working together. So if
20:30 we're looking to communicate at some
20:32 point the ambition for the future, I
20:34 think we should be able to do that on a
20:35 very firm footing based on what we've
20:37 done so far as an organization. But I
20:39 think we have to think about how we
20:40 communicate that and there'll be
20:42 colleagues within you know in CTM I'm
20:44 sure it's the same in in carbonale and
20:46 probably in AB as well who may not be
20:48 aware of perhaps the extent of the
20:50 benefits that we realized collectively.
20:53 So there's an opportunity there I think
20:54 for us to to address. So just building
20:57 on that point, I think it's really
20:58 important particularly in in the context
21:01 of LHP and the affordability of LHP that
21:04 we also make some of that narrative
21:06 about the extra money we've secured into
21:09 the region because some of that capacity
21:13 has been funded by us and some of that
21:16 capacity has been funded through
21:18 external resources
21:20 um coming into our various waiting list
21:22 positions and I think it'd be really
21:24 good if we could map the extra resources
21:26 that we're getting into the system over
21:28 time because constantly and it might
21:32 just be us there's the kind of
21:34 assumption that sustainability uh the
21:36 money gets withdrawn and I think that's
21:38 one of the things that we're going to
21:40 have to work our way through how do we
21:42 navigate that territory and get security
21:45 of recurrency of funding where we need
21:48 it and not where we don't so where we're
21:49 delivering efficiency that should be on
21:52 us where it is it is something that
21:54 needs additional funding How do we
21:56 source that? And that is one of the
21:58 bigger problems I think in taking that
21:59 case through that we'd be negligent if
22:02 we don't kind of face into a bit in this
22:04 meeting.
22:07 And just on picking up P's point on
22:09 engagement. So the areas our population
22:11 of S Powers would be particularly
22:13 interested in stroke work. Um and then
22:16 any changes particularly around travel
22:18 and so forth of LHP for as those plans
22:22 develop. So just to note those will be
22:25 to our population of particular
22:27 interest.
22:31 Okay. For another comments or questions.
22:33 So Chris will move on to the the next
22:35 item which is the the future work
22:36 program.
22:36 Yeah. This will just be very brief. Um
22:39 we held a workshop before before this
22:40 session and talked about the areas we
22:42 wanted to focus on and we'll be
22:44 developing that into a more formal work
22:45 program to bring back to the next
22:46 meeting. Essentially it be around
22:48 delivery in our existing programs. um
22:51 considering how we transact and do
22:53 business and our model for delivery um
22:55 within this um uh board and wider um
22:58 developing our shared narrative and that
23:01 collective um storytelling as a group um
23:03 and also looking at our process or how
23:05 we identify collective opportunities
23:07 going forward. How do we get the best
23:09 benefit of the services that we want to
23:11 bring through this group?
23:16 in terms of the future work program
23:17 anything at this point I think something
23:19 that we're going to be likely some case
23:21 I suspect but okay um we do have uh
23:26 under item 4.1
23:28 a procurement specification that we're
23:30 being asked to consider and to to
23:32 approve this afternoon so Chris you can
23:34 just talk us through it I know it's in
23:35 relation to work
23:38 yeah very very briefly then um this is a
23:40 proposal to procure um an organization
23:43 partner to work with us I think we all
23:46 recognize and it's and it's set out in
23:47 in the terms of reference and what we've
23:49 discussed actually how we work together,
23:51 how we operate and how we support our
23:53 teams in operating on a regional basis
23:55 is um absolutely crucial and therefore
23:58 um the proposal um looks at um procuring
24:01 a partner to work with us in support of
24:03 that essentially working across um three
24:05 levels. So facilitating work of the
24:08 joint committee itself in in developing
24:10 its processes and thinking about um how
24:12 it operates and um co-designing some of
24:15 the um how it works um together um
24:18 working across um executive teams. So
24:20 how do we build um our dynamic of how we
24:23 work together but also an opportunity
24:25 for a partner to work with some of our
24:26 wider regional teams as well. We might
24:29 think that some of our clinical
24:30 representatives and particularly some of
24:31 our senior clinical leaders. We know
24:33 there is a need for us to work and bring
24:36 some of those leadership teams together
24:38 in different ways to to think about way
24:40 we operate services on a regional basis.
24:42 So um the the specification um also
24:44 provides capacity.
24:48 Thank you Chris. Any comments or
24:50 questions on the
24:53 detail of the spec and the request to
24:56 proceed it's a very sensible thing that
24:58 we should be doing at this stage. Yeah.
25:00 Know think it's a really good idea and
25:01 I underestimate the impact. I think I
25:04 suppose it's just us making sure in
25:06 terms of the scope and that we get good
25:10 value from
25:12 as we all know we got financial position
25:14 we need to make sure we have the impact
25:16 we anticipate. So we just need to test
25:17 that with
25:22 a colleague's happy to approve the
25:24 specification. I know Ann's needed to to
25:27 leave, but she has indicated that she's
25:29 happy to approve.
25:34 Okay. Um I don't have any other uh
25:38 urgent business unless anybody has
25:39 anything they want to raise no.
25:44 Um in terms of the timing uh of our our
25:47 next meeting, um dates in February and
25:50 March are being explored. So, we'll get
25:52 that sorted as quickly as possible. Um,
25:54 as chair, I'm very keen that we meet uh
25:57 in person. I know it's hard. It does
25:59 mean that we will have to leave our
26:01 offices and and get to one place
26:03 together. But I think having people in
26:05 the room, you know, it's it's it's
26:07 healthier. I think it's better for our
26:09 our ways of working and uh building
26:12 those relationships is really really
26:13 important, I think, to us as a as a
26:15 collective. So if that's okay with you,
26:16 we'll attempt to get a a date in
26:18 February or March uh in uh in person.
26:22 And before I finish, can I also thank
26:24 Gareth and Cali for supporting us um
26:26 this afternoon with the organization and
26:29 Chris the planning as well in support of
26:31 the the first meeting
26:37 amino.
26:40 Uh I now bring the meeting to a close
26:42 and I would like to extend my thanks to
26:45 all those who participated in the
26:46 meeting or have observed our proceedings
26:49 virtually. Thank you all very much. Good
26:50 to see you.